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Because you said 1 is on apple I can tell you it is Pristiphora maesta with 100% certainty.
If you will tell me what 2 was on, I may be able to help.(You are right thinking they are both sawflies)
Thanks for the ID Ian ,unfortunately the second sawfly was walking along a wall and I put it on a leaf ,for the photo ,
so I do not know what the foodplant is .